Question:
how far out do you kick a point after attempt from?
ASAPP
2006-03-04 13:53:07 UTC
yardline
Eight answers:
sportsman90232
2006-03-04 14:06:02 UTC
you kick it from the 2 yardline plus a 7 yard snap which would make it a 19 yard feild goal attempt.
antiochtennis
2006-03-05 15:45:31 UTC
The answer is that the ball is kicked from about the 8 or 9 yardline, some kickers will even move it back to the 10 so as to get more height on the ball before a defender can block it. When you add 10 yards to the kick because of the length of the endzone it makes the point after attempt the equivalent of about a 19 yard field goal.
Lissa pooh
2006-03-04 14:01:51 UTC
Rules for an extra point in the NFL



Of coarse college, highschool, and others vary.



Digest of Rules



Try

1. After a touchdown, the scoring team is allowed a try during one scrimmage down. The ball may be spotted anywhere between the inbounds lines, two or more yards from the goal line. The successful conversion counts one point by kick; two points for a successful conversion by touchdown; or one point for a safety.



2. The defensive team never can score on a try. As soon as defense gets possession or the kick is blocked or a touchdown is not scored, the try is over.



3. Any distance penalty for fouls committed by the defense that prevent the try from being attempted can be enforced on the succeeding try or succeeding kickoff. Any foul committed on a successful try will result in a distance penalty being assessed on the ensuing kickoff.



4. Only the fumbling player can recover and advance a fumble during a try.
Heather
2016-03-13 09:51:50 UTC
On the kickoff, the ball is stationary on a tee without a holder (in most cases) holding the ball down. If you notice when the ball has to be kicked off w/ someone holding the ball, the ball doesn't usually go as far. Also, most kickers have a 5-10 yard runup to the ball, which means they can get more force into the ball. For the XP or FG attempts, you have the holder holding the ball to the ground, and a shorter runup to the ball.
blorgo
2006-03-05 06:33:58 UTC
The ball is placed on the three-yard line and snapped to the holder, who can kneel anywhere behind the line of scrimmage. Place kicks are usually spotted about 7 yards behind the line, so a PAT is ordinarily kicked from near the 10-yard line, making it a 20-yard kick.
jameswilson1964
2006-03-04 14:06:41 UTC
15 yards
mstyle
2006-03-04 13:55:00 UTC
hike it from the three and kick it from the 10
2006-03-04 13:54:19 UTC
History and Future of the Point(s) After Touchdown



Why in USAmerican, Canadian, and rugby football, is there a

usually anticlimactic event, called variously the "try", "try-

for-point(s)", "point(s) after touchdown" ("PAT" or simply "point

after"), "try-kick", "extra point(s)" (or simply "the point"),

"conversion", "convert", or "kick at goal after try"--a minor

score which seems designed to invite fluke results--stuck onto

the major scoring plays of the game?



In early rugby, only goals were scored. When the ball depart-

ed the rectangular field, either via a side boundary or a goal

line (the line in which a goal stood), it remained in play, but

only to the extent needed determine which team would put the ball

back into normal play; that task belonged to whomever first

touched the ball to the ground. The area outside the bounds

therefore came to be called "touch". That term is still used

today in rugby for the area outside the side lines, and in the

NFL (National [US] Football League) for the end zones (beyond

each goal line).

Suppose a player of the team attacking a goal legally touched

the ball down beyond that goal line. The means by which their

side got to put the ball back in play was the "punt out". The

player punting out would have to punt the ball from a spot beyond

that goal line, no farther from the nearest side line than where

the ball was touched down, and closer to that side line than the

nearest goal post, back out into the field-of-play. Defending

players waiting for play to thus restart could stand behind their

goal line, but allowing a little space, closer to the nearest

side line, for this kick to emerge. Attackers could wait in the

field of play. The ball was in play as soon as punted. It had

to cross the goal line, and then was treated like any kick, with

one exception: a teammate of the punter-out could make a fair

catch of it. (Australian Rules and speedball are the only games

I know of wherein nowadays you can be awarded a fair catch from

your own side's kick.)

If a fair catch was made from a punt-out (or a punt-onþ-see

below), the catcher had the option of a free kick, usually aimed

at goal, or a punt-on. A punt-on was just like a punt-out, with

the mark of the catch and the line of the catch leading to a

punt-on treated analogously to the spot of the touching down and

the goal line for a punt-out.



It behooved the team punting-out to try to get a fair catch,

but there was one other consideration: whether to simultaneously

attempt to improve the position (wider angle, shorter distance)

of the ensuing shot at goal. If the ball had been touched down

far out to either side, the punt-out could be angled infield to

try to get closer to the goal. However, this would increase the

hang time of the punt, allowing the defense more time to charge

out and interfere; kicking the ball lower would decrease hang

time, but might make a fair catch harder. If the catch were

missed, the ball would remain in play, and probably not afford

the attacking side as good a chance as from a fair catch.

The less ambitious play (a no-brainer in case the ball was

touched down near or between the posts) was a sort of "technical"

or "cheapie" punt-out. The punter-out would come up to the goal

line, and just dub it across to a teammate waiting right there.

The catcher would be immediately mauled by the defenders, but not

soon enough to prevent a fair catch. The ball would then be

taken back from this mark as far as desired for a kick at goal.

This kick, though called a try for goal (or simply "try"), was

in play like any other. An angled kick from far out at the side,

assuming it missed, would often afford the attacking side a good

chance to touch the ball down beyond the goal line closer than

the original touch-down had been made. Given the relatively

short distance straight ahead the attacking team had to travel

under such circumstances, it was often a 50-50 ball. This

possibility was an additional inducement to use the cheap type of

punt-out described in the paragraph above.

Eventually the triviality of the "tap" punt-out gave way to

the side awarded it being given the choice of either taking a

"real" punt-out to improve position as described earlier, or

simply taking the ball straight back from the spot of the touch-

down for a try at goal as if the cheapie punt-out and fair catch

had been completed. Later they were allowed to bring it straight

back from between the goal posts if touched down there, instead

of having to take it outside the nearest post.

In no sense was the try for an "extra" point; it was the ONLY

point--equal to a goal from the field under other circumstances.

However, due to the low scoring nature of the game, another

statistic was sought to break ties. The method was adopted of

breaking ties by counting the tries that weren't converted to

goals. But I wonder how the counting was made when a missed try

led to another, as described above?



Such was the state of in rugby at the time American football

adopted its rules. Then the first change which was to create the

"point after" as a play distinct from the rest of the game was

made: in American football, a try for goal that missed would not

stay in play, but be treated as if touched down by the defending

side. The try for goal would be directly for goal only, and

could not lead to another try.

The same change was later made, apparently independently, in

rugby. A relic of these rules survived until very recently in RU

(Rugby Union) football, in that the kickoff after a missed try

kick was a drop kick instead of a place kick, echoing the drop-

out that would have occurred had the defending side touched a

live kick down in goal.

Later rugby eliminated the option of a punt-out; it was gone

by the time Canadian football became a distinctive game. The

punt-out survived longest in USAmerican football, although the

following change was soon made: if a punt-out did not result in a

fair catch, the ball was dead and play proceeded as for a missed

try. This change was sufficient to establish the point(s) after

touchdown as a little game unto itself, which had to end before

the game restarted. Eventually in American football the game

clock was stopped during the try; only very recently was this

same change--time out during the convertþadopted in Canadian

football--and then only in the last 3 minutes of a half or over-

time in the CFL (Canadian Football League).



American football, like rugby, already used the expedient of

breaking ties by counting unconverted tries when it was decided

to discourage teams from conceding a safety (now "safety touch"

in Canadian football, "touch down" in rugby; originally "safety

touch down") by incorporating these into the tie-breaking system.

Later, rather than a simple priority system of determining the

winner (count goals, then if tied count missed tries, if still

tied count safeties against), a combination ordinal-cardinal

system was adopted, which I won't try to reproduce here; however,

for the first time in American football, it was possible for a

number of unconverted tries to beat a goal. While this system

MIGHT have been unambiguous, it seems cumbersome. If it was hard

to tell even AFTER the game who'd won, imagine the difficulty of

making tactical decisions near the end of a close game.

This system of determination was quickly replaced by a point

value scoring system; rugby made this change, too, though not

under the pressure of such a problem as described above in

American football. In rugby a goal would score 3 points, and an

unconverted try, 1 point. Looked at another way, a try was worth

1 point; a goal from a try (conversion), 2; and a goal from the

field, 3. Eventually rugby's terminology changed so that the act

of scoring by touching the ball down beyond the opposing goal

line, for which a try kick was awarded, came to be called itself

a "try", while the kick so awarded came to be called "kick at

goal AFTER try"; probably the same British language logic by

which the redundancy "in in-goal" came about--go figure.

In American football the scoring was: touchdown (touching the

ball down beyond the opposing goal line), 2 points; safety, 1;

goal from a try, 4; goal otherwise ("from the field"--"field

goal"), 5. Note that in both rugby and American football, a

successful conversion itself counted for twice what the try or

touchdown scored, at first. However, a touchdown, if the try was

converted, slightly outscored the American field goal, while in

rugby the scores were only equal. Note also that because Ameri-

can football kept the punt-out option for considerably longer, it

was possible to score a safety during the conversion processþ-

probably as a result of a team killing time by moving backward

with a series of punt-ons (punts-on?).



I won't detail the series of steps by which, as the kicking

game was relatively devalued, the relative scores changed. The

process went on in USAmerican football fastest, Canadian football

next fastest, and slowest in rugby--a bit faster in RL (Rugby

League) than in RU. I think it fairly safe to say that this

process has plateaud in USAmerican and Canadian ball (TD 6, FG 3,

try-KICK 1), but is still evidently not settled in rugby, where

just in recent decades the try was increased from 3 to 4, then 4

to 5 points, while the conversion remains at 2 and other goals

(in RU) 3; RL has a 2 point goal from a penalty kick and 1 point

from a drop-kicked field goal.

(For completeness I mention the permanent addition of the

rouge as a single point in Canadian football, and the temporary

installation of the equivalent "force down" score in New Zealand

rugby. The 2 point conversion is discussed below.)

The gain in value of touchdowns (or in rugby, tries) versus

goals can be seen as a continuation of the process that differen-

tiated rugby from soccer: the former incorporated more ball

handling, while the latter eliminated most handling. But in this

process, the conversion kick "suffered" the worst. A try kick is

worth only 1/3 a field goal in the major North American versions

of football, 2/3 in RU. Only in RL is a try kick 1:1 to a

penalty goal and 2:1 to a drop goal.



Converting a try in rugby, described above, has been done the

same way since the punt-out was eliminated and the spot inside

the posts allowed. The kicker takes the ball back as far as

desired from the goal line. The major consideration is widening

of the angle to target. Outside the width of the goal, the line

of maximal width, wind conditions aside, is an equilateral

hyperbola thru the posts; this may be adjusted for inswing

tendencies of soccer-style kickers. Very close to the goal, of

course, the need to chip the ball upwards over the bar needs to

be taken into account, while near the sidelines the distance can

be a consideration. A place or drop kick can be used.

That's it for RL. In RU an additional consideration, held

over from a procedure used for other free kicks, is that the

defending side, otherwise constrained to stand behind their goal

line, can rush in when the kicker starts his/her approach.

In contrast, USAmerican and Canadian football, even after

eliminating the punt-out, have changed particulars of the conver-

sion play several times and in several ways. The major variables

have been the spot from which the ball is played, the type of

kick or other play allowed, and what types of scores are counted.

The first change made in both Canada and the USA was to

disconnect the spot of the conversion play from the position in

which the touchdown was scored. Whether the touchdown was

recorded in the middle or the corner, the team awarded the try

could take it from the center; but exactly how?

In Canada, a new challenge was introduced: the convert had to

be by a drop kick, and from 35 yards out--later reduced to 25.

In USAmerican football, the conversion became a scrimmage

play, like any other except that only a goal could be scored, and

that play would end if a kick failed to score a goal or if the

defenders got the ball. The attacking side could snap the ball

from anywhere within the field of playþnormally just outside the

center of the goal line.

Later other scores--a touchdown or (extremely rare) a safety

against the defending teamþ-were allowed as the conversion,

counting the same 1 point as a goal. This change necessitated

specifying at least a minimum distance for the spot of the

conversion play: the 2 yard line. Canadian football eventually

adopted the scrimmage convert play, too, fixing the spot for a

time from the 10 yard line, and allowing a place kick or drop;

these too had become 1 point scores.



It's hard to separate the history of the conversion from that

of the field goal, so I'll discuss the change in the target.

American football moved the goal from the goal line to the end

line, 10 yards removed. A reason cited for this change was to

remove a hazardous obstacle to the players, but surely the effect

of making the goal a more difficult score was considered in this

change. The NFL later moved the goals forward to the goal lines

again to encourage this score or its threat, only to move it back

again to the end line to discourage field goals or make them more

of a challenge.

During the time the goals were on the goal lines in the NFL,

it was common practice to scrimmage the ball from on or near the

3 yard line for the conversion, a yard farther away than the

rules required. That was to gain precision for the spot of the

place kick, taking a snap of 7 yards back to put it exactly on

the 10 yard chalk stripe. When the goals were put back 10 yards,

teams reclaimed that yard during the try.

The NCAA (Nat'l [US] Collegiate Athletic Admin.), followed by

the NF (Nat'l [US] Feder'n [of State High School (Athletic)

Admins.]), widened the goals from 18'6" to 23'4". The story goes

that 24' was desired, but rejected in favor of a structure easily

constructed using the longest easily available 2" X 4" lumber: a

24' beam, which had to overlap the upright post it was nailed to

on each end. NCAA later reduced the goals to their original

18'6" width.

One variant of USAmerican football slightly bucked the trend

of devaluing goals versus touchdowns--the 6-a-side game known as

six man football invented by Epler and played mostly at small

high schools. In recognition of the underdevelopment of kicking

skills at that level of competition, and of the relative ease of

blocking place or drop kicks from scrimmage (because of the less

cluttered path defenders have to the ball when there are fewer

players on the field), the field goal was valued at 4 points

during regular play and 2 points during a conversion. (6 points

were still given for a touchdown and 2 for a safety during

regular play, but only 1 point apiece during a conversion.)

Besides, the goal was made 25' wide and the crossbar 9' instead

of 10' off the ground.

I don't know about the scoring in 8- and 9-a-side versions of

football played at some high schools. Pop Warner football,

played by juveniles, allowed local leagues the option to adopt

the 6-man scoring scheme for conversions: 2 for a field goal, 1

for a touchdown or safety; the default was 1 point for either.



The widening of the goal by the NCAA might have been partly in

compensation for a change made the year before: introduction of

the 2 point conversion as an option for the team awarded the try.

A touchdown would count 2 points during a conversion instead of

1. This change extended to the try-for-point(s) the ratio of

scoring of touchdowns to field goals--6:3 during general play,

2:1 during the conversion. But apparently it was thought that 2

points woulb be too much for a 2 yard gain, so the spot for the

play was moved from the 2- to the 3-yard line. NF fairly quickly

adopted the same changes, although many other interscholastic

football rules-making bodies were slow to adopt the 2 point

chance.

The AFL ([US]American Football League) allowed the 2 point

conversion from its start, but kept the 2 yard line as the spot

for the play. A number of minor professional, semi-pro, and

amateur football leagues allowed the converting team to score the

2 points for the touchdown if they snapped the ball from at least

the 3 yard line, but still allowed the PAT scrimmage from the 2

yard line if the team so chose. Would you believe that to gain

that extra yard for the kick, teams I saw sacrificed the threat

of the 2 point conversion? (Perhaps an unspoken rule was that a

kick would not be allowed if the ball was snapped from the 3. No

fake field goals during the try?)

The CFL and CAFA (Canadian Amateur Football ***'n) were next

to adopt the 2 point convert as an option for the converting

team. However, rather than following the NCAA's lead of moving

the spot away from the goal line to compensate, the Canadians

moved the scrimmage closer--from the 10- to the 5-yard line.

The NFL was the last to adopt the 2 point conversion. After

a hiatus following the merger with the AFL, the latter's 2 point

conversion from the 2 yard line eventually re-emerged.



Some versions of North American football pursued this trend

farther, devaluing the goal during the conversion to 0 points.

During 2 consecutive years of AFL-NFL exhibition play, an experi-

ment was made of allowing only a touchdown (or a safety, I guess)

to score during a conversion--1 point as per the NFL, not the

AFL's 2. Because an unconverted touchdown was kept as a 6 point

score, this was actually a devaluation of the touchdown during

general play.

Later the World Football League (WFL) adopted the "action

point" as its conversion. The score for an unconverted touchdown

was increased to 7, and a touchdown during the conversion,

snapped from the 2.5-yard "action line" (How much Madison Avenue

can you stand?), added 1. (A goal during the conversion was

worthless.) This represented an increase in the relative value

of the touchdown in general play.

There are USAmerican and Canadian versions of touch football

without goals, and in some of them a point after touchdown (via a

touchdown) is used. In some versions of touch rugby, where goals

don't count, a try counts more if scored near the center than it

does near a side (touch) line; this simulates the greater ease of

a kick at goal after a try near the posts.



Arena football draws on various North American and rugby

forebears. For a conversion, Arena football awards 2 points for

a touchdown, I guess 1 point for a safety, 1 point for a goal by

place kick, and 2 points for a goal by drop kick. (In general

play Arena ball gives 4 for a drop and 3 for a place kicked field

goal, just as for a time RU gave 4 for a drop goal during general

play and only 3 for a penalty kick goal, usually from placement.)



Recently the NCAA broke the long-established principle that

team B (the team defending at the start of the play) could not

score during the try which had been awarded against it.

Restoring a bit of the "live ball" condition from the origins of

the try, they allowed once again a touchdown or safety (2 points

or 1, respectively) to be scored during the conversion by the

team against whom the try was awarded. Because the NCAA had made

a return kick illegal some time back, team B cannot score a field

goal. The CFL, where ordinarily a return kick can still score a

goal, also adopted team B scoring during the convert, but allows

them only the 2-point possibility.



Thus has the circle nearly been closed, and the history of the

point(s) after touchdown completed. How is the conversion

practiced today, and what effect does it have on football? Well

of course it increases the expected average score from a touch-

down (or try in rugby), but what else?

RU's 2 points for a try kick conversion make a converted try

(total 7 points) better than the 6 points from a pair of goals

otherwise obtained (penalty or drop), which are in turn better

than the 5 for an unconverted try. In RL the try kick is equal

in value to a penalty kick in points for success: 2.

Charging down (blocking--or "saving", if I may borrow a term

from games where a goal keeper exists) a try kick is a rarity in

RU and illegal in RL. Besides the kicker's accuracy, the main

determinant of the chance of success in converting a try is the

position where it was awarded. Thus, a try between the goal

posts (given for touching it down there or as a penalty try) is

more valuable than one scored in a corner.

Rugby thusly preserves the principle that the goal, the center

of the goal line, is to be attacked and defended as a separate

object along with the goal line. Action often continues when a

player carrying the ball in his/her opponent's in-goal (the area

beyond the goal line; called "end zone" in USAmerican and Canadi-

an amateur football, "goal area" in the CFL), although able to

touch the ball down immediately, tries to work toward the middle

first, to touch down in better position, while defenders try to

prevent such.

A try between the posts often follows a more severe defensive

breakdown than would a try away from the posts, because the

nature of rugby, including the fact that the ball goes to one's

opponents when one puts it over a touch (side) line, makes

defenses exert pressure from the center toward the sides of the

field. Such a try often occurs regardless of the attackers'

performance. The position of the try is more of a penalty to the

team giving it up than a reward to the team producing it. It can

sometimes result from a risky play gone bad, as when a pass is

intercepted. It's frequently opined that a try in the corner

usually takes more creativity, skill, and teamwork, as from a

passing movement that just barely beats the defenders, than does

a try near the posts. That's one reason that was given for

increasing the value of an unconverted try from 3 to 4 points,

and presumably was also used to justify the raise from 4 to 5--a

relative decrease in the value of the conversion.



Another feature of the kick at goal after try is that it slows

the game considerably. All the players except the kicker are

doing essentially nothing, and can take something of a breather.

However, a breakaway try by a lone player produces something of a

"suckers walk" effect: his/her teammates can stay in their half

of the field, while all players of the team scored on have to go

behind their own goal line, only to come out to mid field again

for the kickoff.

The time consumed counts toward full time of the game, to the

extent the referee allows. The time it takes, even by a side

rushing things along, can be such that near the end of a game, a

team behind by a few points with a difficult angle for the kick

may be best off to decline it, and save the time. You can be

sure that the team with the lead will be in no hurry to chase

down the missed try kick and return it to play.



Differences in skill and leg strength change the chance of

converting a try kick a lot, depending on level of competition.

Teams at the world's top level are assured of near certainty for

all but the most difficult angles; for them a try is as good as 7

points. Farther down the scale it gets much iffier. Therefore

the position of a try may be relatively unimportant or important.



In North American football at high levels of competition the

single point after touchdown is also a very sure thing. In the

NFL when the goals were on the goal line, it'd become a ridicu-

lously sure thing. I do remember one year that the New York

Giants blocked several; they'd probably figured a way to cheat

and get away with it for a while.

The choice of 2 points was introduced largely to make the

conversion play interesting again. It looks like they're going

to kick, but maybe they'll run or passþyou never know. Of

course, the threat of the 2 points makes it a little easier to

convert for 1; the defense has to play the fake as well as the

ostensible kick. That was one reason the NFL took so long to add

the 2 point conversion: having made 1 point after a bit harder,

by moving the goals once again to the end line, they didn't want

to make it a surer thing again.

In the NCAA, the 2 point conversion, probably as intended, has

often been used as a gamble to win, rather than to tie a game.

But in the AFL the 2 point conversion was used much more often to

make a tie than to break one: 2 FG + TD + 2-pt. conversion = 14

points = 2 TD + 2 1-pt. conversions. The NFL put in the 2 point

conversion only after regular season overtime tie-breaking had

been installed, and it appears that most teams therein would

rather produce a tie (sometimes by a late 2 point conversion) and

play overtime than to try for 2 to win in regulation time.

The 2 point conversion for a run or pass (not the 6-man and

optional Pop Warner scoring explained before) at lower levels of

competition, namely many teams playing under NF rules, had an

altogether different effect. The percentages of successful PATs

by kicking are often much less there. Many high schools would

never even attempt a kick from scrimmage other than a punt. The

introduction of the 2 point conversion gave them even less reason

to try to develop goal kicking skills; instead they'd always go

for 2 points. Some, for whom the percentage of a kick might be

slightly greater than a run or pass, might only go for 1 point if

it'd put them ahead with little time left; otherwise the antici-

pated payoff for the 2 point try would always be greater.

The other effect of the 2 point optionþmaking it a little

riskier for the defense to go all-out to block the kickþmay have

less effect in such junior competition, where there are more

outright misses than blocked kicks. On the other hand, this

effect may be greater because of the more deliberate style used

for place kicks from scrimmage by the inexperienced: the ball is

teed up before the kicker starts the approach, giving rushers

more time to block the kick.



Because of the lack of players skilled at drop kicking, in

Arena football running or passing has been used more often than

drop kicking over the 15' high 9' wide crossbar to attempt a 2

point conversion. The place kick for 1 point is pretty sure.



Not satisfied with the 2 point option, the NCAA decided to put

more excitement into the try by allowing the other team to score.

Near the end of a game played under this provision, a team which

is in the lead may be better off to decline the try (or snap it

and immediately kill the ball) than to suffer even the minute

risk of a turnover or blocked kick and opposing 2 point score.

For instance, on a play on which time expires for the game, a

team scores a touchdown to go ahead by 1 point without convert-

ing--a no-brainer. But if there's instead a little time left,

one's judgement of the percentages might advise either leaving

well enough alone or going for 2 points to get ahead by 3 points.

After the punt-out had been abolished but before the NCAA

revived 2-way live ball conversions this way, how was it possible

for a safety to be scored against the defending team, when the

ball was dead as soon as they came into possession? Depending on

the exact rules being played at the time and in the circuit in

question (which details I won't go into, but they have to do with

"responsibility" for putting the ball into the end zone), it was

sometimes theoretically possible for the defense to add impetus

to a loose ball in the field-of-play, and recover it in their own

end zone; under such circumstances, they weren't even allowed to

run it out into the field-of-play to avoid the score. However,

if the new impetus was imparted by illegally batting the ballþthe

only way under some rules--the attacking team would have the

option of a penalty to continue the try. Since they'd almost

certainly, under the circumstances producing such a freak play,

have wanted 2 points, the illegal bat (say of a fumbled ball

which had come to rest) may have been a worthwhile intentional

foul. That being the case, it may be ruled a[n] [palpably]

unfair act for which a penalty 2 point score would be awarded.



What does the future hold? That depends on the opinions of

the players, administrators, patrons/entrepreneurs, and fans of

the games of which I write.



The try/try-for-point(s)/point(s) after touchdown/PAT/

point after/try-kick/extra point(s)/conversion/convert/kick at

goal after try/point is a tenacious token remnant of an old play

procedure. At a fraction of its original importance, it hangs on

very hard.

It's consistently anticlimactic. Can you think of any other

game--I don't care whether you play it on a field, with cards,

with dice, or what--in which score is kept in one unit of ac-

count, where a major score like a touchdown (or try in rugby)

comes with an opportunity to add a minor score like a conversion

afterward? Adding to the anticlimax in football is the fact that

at high levels of competition the conversion kick has an extreme-

ly high success rate.

The high success rate of the PAT tends to produce fluke

results--games in which a game is decided or tied merely because

someone missed an easy kick. That sure doesn't satisfy my

esthetics. Yes, sometimes such a kick is blocked, suggesting a

reward for especially good defense. In RU a charged down kick at

goal after try occurs, not a result of extra defensive perfor-

mance, but rather almost always a low kick, slow approach, and

poor judgement by the kicker. In North American football the

blocked kick is also often the result of bad execution.

North American football's adoption of the 2 point conversion,

and the more recent adoption of 2 way conversion scoring (both

teams) are clearly the results of efforts to jazz up what's been

long perceived as an unsatisfying part of the game. It's a

tribute to the conversion's tenaciousness that, rather than being

seen as an appendage which could be chopped off, it's been viewed

as an ailing vital organ which needs help and more exercise. How

else to explain such a phenomenon as the WFL's "action point"?

But do the 2 point option and 2 way scoring satisfy esthetic-

ally? They seem logical. If a touchdown counts twice as much as

a goal during regular play, why not during conversion? If team B

can score during regular play, why not during a conversion?

2 way scoring during the conversion, though it holds some

interest (as practically any game procedure would), and was an

idea I'd had independently, seems goofy. Long gone is the sense

that the ball is being put back into play for both teams; long

established is the expectation that the conversion be a bonus for

the team which scores a touchdown. The only reason North Ameri-

can football lends itself to this innovation is that the game is

played in brief, discrete plays dominated by a single ballcarrier

or two. It doesn't slow the game down much if we let the player

who recovers a loose ball try to run to the opposite end of the

field for (a mere) 2 points.

1 and 2 point options aren't goofy, but highlight the ques-

tion: Why have a 1-play micro-game within the game, scores

reduced by 2/3, instead of getting on with the game?

Rugby has preserved slightly more connection between the

conversion and the rest of the game, in that the spot of the try

kick is determined by where the try was scored. For reasons

explained in the last post, it's been thought by many that the

rewards and incentives for a good spot are esthetically perverse.

In RU, because a try is often scored by a passing movement some

distance laterally from a set piece--a scrum, ruck, maul, line-

out, or penalty or free kick--even maneuvering the ball toward

the center, from which second phase ball could give a wide angle

for a drop goal, if the attackers move for a try instead, it's

likely to give a bad angle for the conversion. A passing move-

ment from a lineout, where the ball is thrown in from the side,

is paradoxically more likely to produce a try between or near the

goal posts.



Why not just eliminate this "extra" score opportunity in rugby

and North American football, and add its expected value to the

score of a touchdown or try? One problem is to figure that

"expected value". The percentages are near unity in, say, the

NFL. But what about Pop Warner, or high school j.v., or low

level women's rugby, where the chances average much less? If the

touchdown or try is raised to 7 points (or 6 if they still score

4 + 2 in RL), that has little effect on top level play, but

changes the score significantly at lower levels.

Where goals are rarely attempted, let alone kicked successful-

ly, as in some very junior play in North American football,

almost the only conversion attempts are by run or pass. Taking

away the try means that the few teams that develop kicking games

have those opportunities to show their superiority reduced; they

may still get a field goal opportunity here or there, but proba-

bly consider it more of a gamble than worthwhile often. Taking

away the try also means the teams which are better at scoring on

3 yard runs or passes lose many of those opportunities. Since

field goals are so rare at this level, the only scores would be

touchdowns and safeties, so the only consideration is what the

ratio of the scores of these should be: 3:1 or 7:2. However,

since 3 safeties in a single game are such a rare event, does it

matter?

I say let each circuit determine its own answer to the score

adjustment problem, and get rid of the try-for-point(s).



You don't want to get rid of it? Then I'll suggest ways to

increase the variety and suspense of this hanger-on.

Let's say a try kick scores only if made by the player who

made the touchdown. (That's like the way in RU the maker of a

fair catch has to make the free kick.) I wouldn't suggest the

same restriction on the 2 point run/pass conversion, which

however one might want to eliminate with this innovation.

Let's re-connect the spot of the touchdown in North American

football to the spot of the try. However, if we follow the

convention of moving the ball in to the inbounds lines (hash

marks), that change won't have much effect on the NFL, where

they're so close together.

Let's make it that if, due to a penalty by the defense during

the try (before or during actual play), the offense gets to snap

the ball from a spot closer than normal, they get the option of 1

automatic point instead of having the try. (Similarly in RU, if

the defense charges too early, count the kick as good.) If they

turn that down, and due to another penalty the spot would be even

closer, give them 2 points and be done with it.

Let's speed up rugby by not taking the try kicks until the end

of the game. Plant colored flags at the closest point on the

dead ball line to where tries were scored, for reference in this

game-end resolution. RL might go for this.

Can you propose a long-shot 3 point conversion option? Like a

touchdown pass over the crossbar in Canadian football? Spinning

around 3 times and kicking blindfolded?



Robert Goodman

1402 ASTOR AVE

BRONX NY 10469

robgood@bestweb.net


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